Grey Knights review - part 2

Following my recent post about the Grey Knights codex, one of my good chums posted the following in response on our Facebook group.

The way I see it is this code was designed for soup. Alone GK are not very competitive. Mix n match them with some IG or ad mech etc and you can build a decent force. It's not really a stand alone army. Too much middle ranged weaponry and nowhere near enough long range. Very limited choices. Designed to be used in a mix of detachments as an elite combat core.

I hadn't thought about the idea that the Grey Knights codex might really have been designed as an ally for the Imperial armies. In that contest I think they fit well as the initial 8th edition release always screamed to me that the Imperial, Chaos and Aeldari factions were supposed to be mixed within themselves making some nice fluffy armies.

Another chap then posted the following:

The thing to remember as well is GW is a business first and foremost. GK have never been a massive hit and they don’t really have a big range. Every infantry unit other than terminators can be built with the same single box. This keeps cost down to make the army. The new edition HQ was just a dread knight and a picture of how to convert it. The only new model they have got in a few years was the HQ in the ultramarines primarch box set because it was the only way they would make money on it.
GK will never be a competitive codex because it doesn’t warrant the effort in money and development to increase there range and rule set. It’s a shame that’s the case but that’s just the way it is. I have just excepted that my GK will be a low tier army and they won’t ever win me many games. They will just come out whenever I fancy trying something or if I cab actually arrange a game with a daemon player for fun.

This could be very true but if so why even bother with the army. It also brings to mind an apocryphal story from about ten years ago. When asked at a Games Day seminar whether Dark Eldar would ever get a new codex, the GW developer said it was unlikely because the army wasn't played very much and how many people here played that army? The resulting number of hands going up stunned him. A couple years later there was a new Dark Eldar codex.

The same thing comes to mind about Sisters of Battle. Games Workshop don't seem all that interested in updating them in recent years because they don't sell despite all the vocal fans crying for a new codex and plastic models. If you don't put out new models people won't buy the army. You have to produce new stuff to keep interest alive.

So is that the problem with Grey Knights? Were they meant to just be an Imperial ally force under this edition? And if they want the army to sell, they need to produce new stuff.

Thoughts?

Codex Review: Grey Knights

My first experience with the Grey Knights was under 4th edition when one of my friends decided to get into 40K with this particular army. At the time I remember that they were rather good and frequently won their games against all manner of different armies and codexes. Subsequent editions seemed to systematically weaken and nerf them as they went along. I'm not convinced that they have done all that well under 8th either.

Grey Knights are what I would call an "Elite" army, meaning that they tend to be very good at what they do but you'll never have enough of them compared to what other armies will bring to the table. With Grey Knights I think that this is quite a weakness that isn't adequately prepared for in other areas.

Their biggest problem is in fact that the entire army is built around the concept of fighting Daemons. This leaves them being rather weak against anyone else. What Games Workshop needed to do was go back to how they used to be when they were dedicated to fighting Chaos as a whole. Make their abilities work against the Chaos faction keyword rather then Daemon and they might, just might, have a decent role to play in 8th edition.

So, let's look at the units we have within these pages...

HQ.

I feel strongly that the generic HQ choices in this codex are rather bland, with the exception of the Librarian, Brotherhood Champion and Chaplain, who don't have a named variation. Even so, I feel that the named characters, except for Valdus - who seems to be just a slightly better Grand Master - are far better choices for your army. Again it comes down to the abilities. Draigo, Stern, and  Crowe are my favourite choices because their abilities stand out more to me as being useful during a game. Each is useful in a different way. Perhaps if you know that you are not playing against Daemons, you might consider playing a generic choice but as an assault based army in that instance I'd take Crowe to lead my army.

I was disappointed by the Grand Master in Dreadknight armour. Why would you take this for your HQ, other than cool factor, when you can already take Dreadknights in your army. This needed to be a new special character with his own anti-daemonic MC abilities to be worth a consideration. If you think otherwise I'd like to know what makes this new option worthwhile?

TROOP.

Two choices presented here, Strike Squads and Terminator Squads. Strike squads are cheaper out of the two but Terminators have a bit more chance of surviving. At the basic level they are equipped the same so I would say your choice of which to take is based purely on the points level of the game you are playing.

ELITES.

The Elite choices I find largely lackluster. The Apothecary is okay and the Dreadnoughts are always a nice choice for this slot. You have two Ancients and you just have to choose whether you want them in terminator armour or not. The Purifier Squad is the one that grabs my attention. Get them into combat, and next psychic phase immolate the enemy with mortal wounds.

FAST ATTACK.

You only have the Interceptor Squad under this bracket. With the ability to ignore terrain on movement and even once per game teleport anywhere on the board these seem like a good choice. You could use these abilities to get them closer into combat or grab a much needed objective

HEAVY SUPPORT.

Firstly, Grey Knights have access to the Land Raider and it's variants. These, although highly costed, are a great choice. Really though, for cost value, you are looking at Purgation Squads and Dreadknights for your Heavy Support slots. Dreadknights are better than Dreadnoughts if you ask me for this army. Purgation squads have some nice weapon choices but ultimately due to the nature of their expected enemy, they seem rather short range to be much use against many other armies.

TRANSPORTS.

Grey Knights have the obligatory Rhino as well as the Razorback. Razorbacks are good mobile fire support but as with other marine equivalent armies, I find the Rhino is too expensive and does not have much staying power.

FLYERS.

Grey Knights still have the excellent Stormraven which I really like for this army, but they also have the Stormtalon and the Stormhawk. The Stormtalon makes for a nice anti-infantry role much like it does for regular space marines. The Stormhawk seems an odd choice as it is mainly an air superiority fighter. Not something that Grey Knights would really need in their war against the Daemons. Especially as most of the weapons it can take are already a fixture on the much better Stormraven.

LORD OF WAR.

None, which is kind of a shame but then what would you give them? Id have given them a named Grand Master in Dreadknight with some cool new abilities.


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It has taken me quite a while to write this review because I've had to go back over the codex again and again to try and understand it just a little bit more. Even so, I find this codex really bland and uninteresting. I think because it is both an Elite army, as I mentioned initially above, and because it is focused so heavily on waging war on Daemons that it feels woefully inadequate to handle anything else very well.

In order to compensate for this I wonder whether they need a general points reduction or even just some new options for their units. Even more so, I would change their rules to target the Chaos faction rather than specifically Daemons. That I think would help them a lot as lets face it, a player is more likely to be fighting some sort of Chaos Marine army than they are a Chaos Daemons one.

I don't want to put down anyone's favourite army here. I really hope that despite several read throughs that I am wrong about this book. I want to be wrong really as I love the concept behind the army. If you play Grey Knights or have played against them plenty, then please let me know where I am wrong in the above thoughts.

Codex Review: Space Marines

I started playing 40K on the original release day back in 1987 and space marines were my army of choice back then. The fluff for them really grabbed my attention. Although I skipped 2nd edition when I came back at the end of 3rd edition space marines were again my come back to choice. I stuck with them all the way through till 7th when I finally lost interest due to their being a "jack of all trades master of none" type army that never did well for me.

Now with a much better edition of the game I've got my hands on the new space marine codex and ready to do my review. The thing to keep in mind as I do these reviews is that I come from a casual narrative background for my wargaming so be aware that not everything is going to gel with your own experiences.

So how do space marines play? Well, this time round they are a hell of a lot better. Where the Death Guard is all about getting those mortal wounds out there, the Space Marines are all about the re-rolls to hit which makes them far more dangerous especially, if like me, you enjoy using plasma weapons. Much less chance of blowing yourself up than previous editions. The codex also gives us the primaris marines who are larger, more survivable (2 wounds) but with less options. You have to take them as they are pretty much. I have a problem deciding whether they are worth including though as the roles their, to my mind, conflict with their regular brothers.

Originally I was going to write up this review like I did with the Death Guard codex but after several unsuccessful tries I realised that there are too many units and characters to realistically cover them all. So I am instead going to narrow the focus down a bit and hope that it still comes across well enough.

HQ.
There are a lot of named space marine characters mainly for those of you playing Ultramarines or Black Templars but for a handful of other chapters as well. Unlike with other armies the characters for the space marines do not readily jump out at me. They very much feel as though they are just slightly better than the regular captains, chaplains and librarians. They feel to me as though you will take them purely because they are the thematic character for your chosen chapter.
I was quite surprised initially to notice that there is no generic chapter master. Instead you have to use a stratagem to elevate a captain to be a chapter master. This seems a bit of an odd choice but with so many new units added to the codex perhaps it was just to save space in the book.
The only thing that stands out to me as something I couldn't get my head around was the primaris variants for the HQ units. I will mention this again and again through this review I am sure but I do not see why you would take a primaris version when all they are essentially are the same unit but with an extra wound and maybe an extra attack but more expensive points wise. Although I don't play loyalist marines anymore I would be more tempted to play a regular marine HQ over a primaris one.

Troops.
Troops have always been where space marine armies strengths lie. The basic tactical squad is still, in my opinion, the best troop option the book has. You have the versatility to take special and heavy weapons suited to the role you want that unit to take. The intercessor squad, which is the primaris equivalent, just does not have the same versatility. You are stuck with just a slightly better ranged bolter unit with an extra wound.
The codex includes a crusader squad for the Black Templars chapter but after reading and re-reading it I cannot see why you would take it over a standard tactical squad if given the choice. Both are quite similar but I think the tactical squad's options have to win out.

Elites.
A lot of what used to make up the old command squad are now separate units - apothecary, ancients (standard bearer) and champion. Under previous editions I would have loved to have taken separate and multiple apothecaries to keep my marines alive. Now you can. A couple of them seem to be a bit odd now though. I will focus on the Ancient here. They have the same ability but the primaris ancient is a shooty character while the regular chapter ancient seems more combat based. Was there a need to do that or was it simply because Games Workshop wanted to add the primaris in across the various character options?
Terminators were always a big thing for me because they had a lot more survivability than regular marines. 8th edition has sort of changed that because rather than denying you a save with the old AP2 or 1 weapons, everything now has an armour save modifier. I may be wrong as I've only played my own Blightlord and Deathshround terminators a couple of times but weapons that reduce such a good save make these less of a viable option for me. They are expensive as is without that strength of such a good save. I'm probably wrong there but that is my gut feeling about them under this edition. One nice addition however, is the inclusion of cataphractii and tartaros terminator units from the Horus Heresy era armies.
Dreadnoughts are a lot better I find under 8th edition as just like with vehicles it is very rare to one shot them anymore. Units like this actually survive for a while now. I am a big fan of the new Redemptor Dreadnought which feels to me what a dreadnought has always wanted to be on the tabletop.
For the primaris there is also the inclusion of the new Reiver squad. These feel like a primaris scout unit but much more close combat and in your face. Depending on your choice of chapter and it's tactics these look like they could be very good.

Fast Attack.
Fast Attack options in the codex don't seem to have really changed an awful lot with the exception of assault marines, who just by how 8th edition assault rules work are now a lot better than they used to be. Inceptors are the primaris version but they are a shooty unit rather than a close combat one. I'm in two minds again on this one but I can see a place for them in your army as a fast moving objective grabber.
Bikes are still good and worth including. Land Speeders have been condensed into a single entry with you just putting the weapon options on to create the variant that you want. The movement boost for having three in the unit seems good for getting firepower where you really need it but makes wonder whether Games Workshop aren't selling enough of them at the moment.

Heavy Support.
This is where your tanks and all your proper shooty units are. As expected 8th edition has made all your tanks a lot tougher and able to survive a lot of incoming firepower while dealing the same out. Land Raiders especially are an awesome choice these days over what they used to be.
The main addition here is your new primaris unit, the Helblasters! This unit is really nasty and able to pump out a lot damage. Combine these guys with all the re-rolls that a space marine army can spread around and you are able to more safely use their nice plasma weapons to avoid 1's. The thing is though that once again, I cannot decide whether I would want a unit of these or I'd rather have a Devastator squad. I find myself erring on the side of taking the dedicated heavy weapon squad because of being able to take lascannons dealing D6 damage a piece! Helblasters seem good for taking down troops or light vehicles but they don't do enough effective damage to bring down large vehicles or monsters.

Transports.
I find it odd that the Transports section comes with such an eclectic mix of vehicles. Rhino's and drop pods I fully get but surely things like the Repulsor should be a Heavy Support unit and not classed as a transport. Repulsors are crazy units that come with far too many weapons. They are a nice unit but a little over the top in their design for me.

Flyers.
The Stormraven is always a good nice solid unit. The Stormtalon and the new-ish Stormhawk seem to be competing for the same slot - infantry and light vehicle hunting but the only difference seems to be that the stormtalon can hover. They are a little too similar for my taste. I may be missing something but they need something to give them a different battlefield role.

Lord of War.
The man himself... Roboute Guilliman! Love him or hate him you cannot deny that this character is awesome. But I would expect nothing less from a Primarch. It is a shame though that his ability only applies to Ultramarines themselves as I would have thought it would Ultramarines and their successors. I can see non-Ultramarine painted armies pretending to be Ultramarines just to use him.
A lot of players seem to dislike him but I think he is fine. The only problem comes from using him in a smaller point game where his strengths will dominate the game too much in favour of the Ultramarine player.

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The Space Marines codex is a very good codex as you would probably expect. What I find nice about it is that in the past space marines were very much the introductory level army. You played them for a while, realsied that they were not all that, and then moved on to another codex. This book changes that. This is a really good army now but I put a lot of that down to the new rules of 8th edition. I still think they are probably the best army to start playing 40K with but they aren't necessarily the one that you abandon because it doesn't hold up as you wanted.

I'm still not convinced on the primaris units. Every time I try and weigh them up I find that the classic space marine units are a better choice but mainly because they have the wargear options allowing you to customize them. Primaris units are very much fixed with what they have and they aren't what you might necessarily what.
A lot of players, especially those who started with the Dark Imperium box set may well starting up a pure primaris army. I can't see them being as well rounded as a classic space marine army. I really want to be convinced otherwise but even talking to the space marine players at my local club I am having trouble. Hopefully time will tell.

Codex Review: Death Guard

It has taken me quite some time to post this up as quite frankly I find reviewing anything really difficult. But now I have had enough time to play most of what is in there, and although I am still missing a few units, I feel I can do some basic thoughts on the army.

First things first. This is a very different army now to the Nurgle chaos space marines that we are used to. With only a couple exceptions the Death Guard have entirely new toys to throw into battle. I still moan about the lack of a Nurgle heldrake but I can understand that Games Workshop were trying to make Death Guard a very different animal to other chaos marine armies.

The big thing about 8th is that every army has a specific way of doing things, whether it be re-rolls, a focus on stratagems or what have you. For the Death Guard you are looking at throwing out mortal wounds to units that get far too close to you. The psychic phase is full of mortal wounds goodness, plague weapons reroll 1's to wound and the proximity of a lord of contagion ensures that someone in the enemy unit is going to corrupt and rot away before your eyes. Disgustingly Resilient - aka the old Feel No Pain - is used to keep your expensive units alive just a little bit longer. These two abilities are what make the army work.

HQ options.

Chaos Lord and Sorcerer.
These two are a complete waste of time in this codex. The lord does the reroll of 1's to hit but the army is built around ensuring that mortal wounds go off. I could see a possible combo between the lord and anything that gives the reroll to wounds but that does not compare to the big disadvantage that it and the sorcerer have - no disgusting resilience. Without that ability they are too easily dropped by the enemy. The sorcerer also seems somewhat irrelevant when you have the plaguecaster.

Daemon Prince of Nurgle.
The daemon prince seems like a replacement for the chaos lord and sorcerer giving both the rerolls of 1 to hit and having some psychic potential, in addition to having DR. I haven't used one thus far simply because I prefer to use Typhus. I might be tempted to field him in a low point game just to give me a step up on my opponent.

Typhus.
Typhus is the go to character in this codex. Even if you don't field poxwalkers (and why aren't you?) his array of special rules make him arguably the best HQ option available to you in this codex. Typhus has done me proud in every game that I have played with him.

Lord of Contagion.
These are like lesser not so good versions of Typhus. No psychic ability and only the basic Nurgle character special abilities. They are still good but if you have Typhus he is a better choice.

Malignant Plaguecaster.
This character is your replacement for the sorcerer and is the obvious choice over that choice. The reason you take it is because DR and a rather nice power that throws out mortal wounds every time it manifests a psychic power with a roll of 7 or higher. Why would you take the basic sorcerer?

Troops.

Plague Marines.
These are your basic troop option as you have no default chaos space marines. They are a little expensive but you have a multitude of potential options with this codex including some nice new melee plague weapons. Also nice is that by having DR you don't need to field the traditional ten man squads and In fact I have done well taking just seven plague marines!

Chaos Cultists.
I know that many do not like cultists but I have found having one reasonable sized squad is very handy. Mainly because if you have an objective based mission you can drop a unit of these on it at the start of the game and leave them. Secondly they are cheap enough that you can throw them at the enemy and if they waste their shooting on the cultists then your better units are being left alone.

Poxwalkers.
The new plague zombies. You can take these as a troop choice but they are much better if you include Typhus as their leader as he boosts them slightly and possibly again with the right psychic ability. Max size squads are the way to go and it is a shame that you can't start with thirty! The best thing is that their Curse of the Walking Pox ability will, if you are lucky, allow you to go over that starting score.

Plaguebearers.
Nice to have Nurgle daemons included in the codex but it does feel like Games Workshop have let us down a bit here. Plaguebearers do not have the Death Guard keyword meaning you cannot include them without losing your battle forged status. You have to summon them which under 8th edition is a waste of time.
The unit itself is nice and I have taken them as an allied detachment where they have done reasonably well. They are as strong and tough as a space marine so you can't argue should you be able to get them into combat.

Nurglings.
I guess that these were included for those players wanting to summon but I find them a waste of space at least on paper. I could see perhaps using their mischief ability being used to draw enemy fire at the start of the game but I doubt I would ever use them in a Death Guard force as there are far better options.

Elites.

Noxious Blightbringer.
An interesting new character type. The Blightbringer walks alone ringing his giant bell causing psychic pestilence to all who hear it. I've only played this option once or twice but both times it proved it's worth but you have to know how to use it. It's ability works well when supporting a plague marine icon bearer for instance.

Foul Blightspawn.
Another elite character but one that is perhaps not so good. It's role seems to be to boost a single Death Guard character grenade thrower which isn't worth the effort. It's plague spewer weapon is nice but again not worth taking for just a single character.
Edit: 22/02/18 - I take this back. After watching this unit used a couple times in games (not mine) I have seriously undervalued this character.

Biologus Putrifier.
A much better character option than the Blightspawn. This one boosts all nearby grenade throwers and in conjunction with the stratagem which allows a whole unit to throw them in overwatch could be quite nasty. Still not a great option but an okay one.

Plague Surgeon.
The Plague Surgeon is basically a Death Guard apothecary boosting nearby DR rolls. He is the sort of Elite option that you could do with a couple off to help keep your units going but you have to decide whether or there are better options. I'm thinking that having two in the collection to boost plague marines could be viable in the right size game.

Tallyman.
The Tallyman is yet another elite character but one which if you are lucky can regenerate your just spent command point. The problem is that you need to roll exactly 7 on 2D6 which despite being an average roll is not guaranteed enough to be fully worth it. It's the sort of option I would include one of just to try and it though.

Deathshroud Terminators.
Now we are talking about the cool Elite options. The Deathshroud's are a must have if you include Mortarion in your army as they are going to be your main, if not only, way of ensuring that he survives long enough to get into the enemy. They are expensive but worth it. You can also use them to safeguard your other HQ characters but their best use to is to keep the Primarch alive.

Blightlord Terminators.
These are the Death Guard version of regular chaos terminators. They are not too dissimilar and on paper certainly look worthwhile. Probably one of the better options in the Death Guard elites section and I would consider them over the characters above.

Helbrute.
The Helbrute is certainly one of the more useful options in an army that doesn't really get too much in the way of anti-vehicle options. Every army needs a dreadnought and I would certainly consider fielding multiple in the right list. Even just one is a great option.

Beasts of Nurgle.
Another daemon option that may or may not be worthwhile. When you have terminators and a helbrute do you need these? Even as a unit to be summoned they do not seem worth it for the reasons I mentioned above. I would certainly get a unit for the collection but whether I would bother to field it very often is another matter.

Possessed.
The Possessed are not worth the time and effort in this army. Even as Death Guard they do not receive the benefits of DR, something everything in your army is built around. Make them Toughness 5 and have DR, then you would have a unit that would be see play. For now though they are best forgotten.

Fast Attack.

Foetid Bloat Drone.
Although I have three of these thus far I have not been able to field more than one in a single game but I really like them. In assault they are not all that but you don't field them for that. You want them for the plaguespitters. Fire, charge, leap of combat and fire again. It is a nice tactic and I've found that it makes the inclusion of at least one to be worthwhile.

Myphitic Blight-Haulers.
These are an odd choice. They are a fast attack option but it seems to me that they are your heavy weapon support units. At this time Games Workshop haven't released any models for them but I am definitely interested in adding these to my army. I think they you are going to want to field a full three of them to make them worthwhile. That they also provide cover save bonuses to Death Guard units nearby means they make great plague marine support platforms.

Chaos Spawn.
I'm in two minds about Chaos Spawn in a Death Guard army. Read the entry and they look quite good. But like Possessed and the basic chaos lord/sorcerer they don't come with Disgustingly Resilience which gives me pause. Everything in this army which isn't a vehicle should come with this ability. The lack of it makes me think again that there are better options although in case I might consider building a single unit of them.

Plague Drones.
Plague Drones are the daemon entry for the fast attack slot. For the fluff reasons I like these but they don't look good enough to include in a Death Guard army. They are a daemon unit which means you have to summon them or take a daemon detachment. Neither of which strike me as good options. That they don't do enough damage is something else that turns me off of them.

Heavy Support.

Chaos Land Raider.
The Land Raider has become a lot more expensive under this edition which has prohibited my using it. It is a very tough unit now and well worth including if you can find the points for it.

Plagueburst Crawler.
This at first glance appears to be the replacement for the vindicator. It could do that job very well. Due to it's lower Ballistic Skill (only a 4+ to start with) I would consider taking multiple of them to ensure that you get the best use of it. The Crawler is one of the new units that I would seriously consider worth fielding in the right mission.

Defiler.
In previous editions the Defiler was a complete waste of space. 8th edition has breathed new life into it. It can put out a lot of damage at range and if you take the scourge as a melee weapon it is a real monster in the assault phase. The regenerative ability is fantastic as well meaning that you can keep it in the game a lot longer. Big thumbs up.

Chaos Predator.
The Predator has been a mainstay of my of army of late. Vehicles now survive a lot longer and the ability to split fire makes them very handy. My favourite option is to mix the weapons - lascannon turret with heavy bolter sponsons - giving the unit more versatility in battle.

Chaos Rhino.
Now that vehicles can survive the initial volley of incoming fire the sturdy Rhino is now another worthwhile option that was rather poor in previous editions. It now survives to get the embarked unit to it's destination.

Lord of War.

Mortarion.
At long last we get our own daemon primarch and he does not disappoint. The Lantern, his plasma pistol, is not as good as it first appears. His strength lies in close combat. Unwounded, he can achieve an impressive 18 attacks with Silence!  The scythe is fantastic against puny infantry and armoured vehicles both. If there is any weakness to him it is that he can be gunned down far too easily. You need the Deathshroud Terminators to keep him alive long enough to get him into combat. After that Mortarion should literally scythe through your opponent with ease.